an Interview with filmmaker Ron Merk

an Interview
with Ron Merk

Ron Merk is the filmmaker behind the Kiddie Matinee classics PINOCCHIO (1969), PINOCCHIO'S BIRTHDAY PARTY (1973) and PINOCCHIO AND HIS MAGIC SHOW (1976). Mr. Merk was kind enough to share his memories on the production of these fantasy film favorites.

kiddiematinee.com: How did you first become involved with producing the English-Language release of TURLIS ABENTEUER (aka PINOCCHIO)?

Ron Merk: In 1968, I was the President of Omega Productions, Inc., a small production and distribution company, in Newark, New Jersey, which is very close to New York City. We had a small crew working on an animated feature of "Rapunzel" which ran into trouble. Too little money, too few people. So, I was looking for a way to make some quick money in order to fund the Rapunzel film. A friend told me about a guy who represented all the Eastern European countries' state film distribution companies, and I went to meet him. I told him I was looking to find some children's films to market in the U.S. I began buying short films, and selling them to companies like McGraw Hill, Encylopaedia Britannica, and others, to be used in teaching what they used to call "language arts" in schools. He said he'd have some prints shipped to me for screening.

One of the companies, DEFA, the East German State film company, sent me many films to screen. One of them, TURLIS ABENTEUER ("Turli's Adventures") was, in fact, the Carlo Collodi story of Pinocchio. I wasn't looking for features, but there it was. So, I bought the rights for the U.S. and Canada, and proceeded to make an English version. By the way, I had just graduated from film school at New York University. Since they didn't teach anything about dubbing a film, I just figured out how it worked, and we just did it. Parenthetially, "Rapunzel" was never finished, I'm sorry to say. Unfinished films are a very common fact of life in the independent film world. And it's not my only unfinished film.

KMC: You and Ellen Prince are credited with the script. Where was the re-writing and dubbing done?

RM: Ellen Prince was one of the artists who worked on the ill-fated Rapunzel film. She was a very talented woman, and as it turned out, we later got married. She and I sat with copies of the original German script, and the English translation, and tried to figure out what would work. We'd write a line, then I'd read the German silently, while Ellen read the English line aloud while watching my lips. If it didn't fit, then we'd adjust it. It was very low tech, but worked pretty well. The writing was all done in the 3rd floor apartment of my parents' home in Newark. There was no such thing as video players or home computers. We had to work with a 35mm print on a moviola, and a legal pad. The dubbing was done at the music studio of Joe Scott, in North Arlington, New Jersey. We rented a Siemens 16mm double system projector, which could record on magnetic film while projecting a 16mm work print in sync with the sound. Every shot in the film work print was cut and spliced into a loop. We then made a loop of 16mm magnetic recording film of the same length. Each shot was numbered according to the script. I then had the actors look at the picture and perform the line over and over until we had a good one. It was difficult but it worked. After we recorded all the loops, the film was then assembled in order. Of course, in the madness of trying to get it done in one week (all the money we had), we missed a few loops, which I then dubbed myself. It's funny how we don't know what our voices sound like to others. I don't particularly like the way my voice records, so these few loops are my least favorite moments in the film.

Ellen, it turned out, had talents besides drawing and writing. After testing many professional actors for the part of Pinocchio, all of whom were audiotaped, I couldn't find a single one that had the right voice for Pinocchio. Quite frustrated, I went to get a sandwich, and left Ellen to listen to the tapes again. When I came back, I heard a great voice. "How did we miss that one? Whoever that is, that person gets the part." In my absence, Ellen had recorded her own voice at the end of the tape, and it was the perfect sound for the little puppet. Ellen ultimately provided the voice of Pinocchio in all three of Pinocchio films that I made.

KMC: Joseph Scott is credited with the music score. Is this an entirely different score than the German one?

RM: Joe Scott wrote the music for the songs that are heard in the film, including the theme song, "A Boy Named Pinochio". I wrote the lyrics. The original German underscore was retained. We simply couldn't afford to change it. In fact, the original score was quite nice, and very appropriate to the visuals of the film. An interesting note about Joe--he later became a lawyer. I've written lyrics for many of my films. To me, it's always been one of the most satisfying aspects of making films for children. In my most recent film, MARCO POLO - RETURN TO XANADU, I wrote lyrics for 4 songs in the film.

KMC: Did you produce PINOCCHIO for Childhood Productions, or was this an independent production which they then picked up?

RM: No. Childhood Productions, which was run by Barry, Howard and Sam Yellen, was the major competition in the kiddie matinee marketplace to K. Gordon Murray. In fact, they put out much better product, although most of it was foreign-made like Murray's fare. They also did better campaigns, made many prints, and overall did a great marketing job. When we bought the DEFA film, I got in touch with them, and asked them if they'd be interested in distributing for us. Barry Yellen asked me, "What's the title?" I responded, "Pinocchio." He said yes, practically without seeing the film. It turned out that kiddie matinees were a "title" business, and Pinocchio sounded like a Disney film. They did later screen it, but I don't think the film mattered to them as much as the title did. In fact, they were looking for films with Disney titles. A funny anecdote: When I told them about the film, they asked if Disney didn't own the name Pinocchio. "No," I told them," Pinocchio is a public domain book written in Italy more than 100 years ago." It's amazing, but most people you ask think Disney created Pinocchio, Snow White and Bambi. They are, in fact, the work of Carlo Collodi, The Brothers Grimm, and Felix Salten. It just goes to show the power and effect Disney had on our culture, and still does, to this day. I always loved Disney's PINOCCHIO. I think it's the best work of the Disney studio in every way, including animation (the water in the Monstro scenes has never been equalled) and character development. So, I guess you could say I was inspired by this film to make more films featuring this appealing little character.

Childhood Productions, as far as I know, produced only one children's matinee film, themselves, THE CHRISTMAS THAT ALMOST WASN'T," (original title: Il Natale Che Quasi Non Fu) starring Rosanno Brazzi and Paul Tripp, a New York local TV star. It was made in Italy, and many of the actors were dubbed in English. The problem with it is that Christmas is a short season, from Thanksgiving to Christmas Eve. On Christmas Day no one is interested in Christmas subjects any more.

KMC: How did PINOCCHIO fare on its theatrical first release?

RM: It did absolutely fantastic business. No one could have guessed the kinds of grosses we would see. The kiddie matinees played Saturday and Sunday, usually the early afternoon, for one or two showings. The film opened in New York, in February of 1969, in 69 theaters. The first weekend's gross was $101,000. This paid for the prints, the TV and newspaper advertising, the distribution fee to Childhood, and a profit to us. In its entire theatrical history, this version of Pinocchio had more than 10,000 playdates. It is, to this day, the most successful kiddie matinee film ever. Childhood had the film for a few years, and we saw money on every quarterly report. However, they decided to expand the company to adult fare (I, A Woman and The Virgin and the Gypsy, etc.) and also buy theaters. I think they went public, too, under the name Cinecom. There was another company years later with the same name, which is unrelated. Unfortunately, they were not as successful in these other ventures as they were in the kiddie field, and ran into financial troubles.

KMC: Childhood Productions declared bankruptcy shortly after this, didn't it? You were able to get PINOCCHIO back and re-release it successfully on your own. How did the re-releases fare?

RM: I can't remember the exact date, but yes, they went bankrupt. It was very hard on us, because we were used to getting those royalty checks on a regular basis. What was even worse was that the bankrupcy court considered our film an asset of Childhood Productions. They had a contract to distribute the film for seven years. So, finally I was forced to buy the film back from the bankrupcy court. All these delays were very costly, and it put a dent in my production plans to do more Pinocchio films. Once I got back the prints,trailers and posters back I made a deal with a company called Paragon Distribution. They did a few playdates and we made a couple of bucks, but it was not the kind of money that we earned when Childhood Productions was in charge of the marketing. They just didn't do the kind of bang-up job the Yellens did at Childhood.

After Paragon's mini-run with PINOCCHIO, I met a seasoned distribution executive (he has been with Avco Embassy and Paramount) named Lou Steisel, one of the real gentlemen I've met in the business. He was a veteran of many years of distribution, and knew how to deal with exhibitors. So, together we set up a small distribution company in New York, called Arrow Film Associates (no relation to the Arrow Films in business today). We had 100 prints of PINOCCHIO to start with, and this primed the cash flow pump. We then bought the DEFA RUMPELSTILTSKIN, and dubbed it in English. An initial order of 50 prints was made, along with a trailer, press kit, poster, etc., and we began booking RUMPELSTILTSKIN as a follow up picture to PINOCCHIO. The idea was to add one or two new films a year, and build up a library of children's titles. The problem was that PINOCCHIO did great business, and RUMPELSTILTSKIN did only fair business. It was this lesson that brought us back to making another Pinocchio film (PINOCCHIO AND HIS MAGIC SHOW). Unfortunately, production is cash intensive, and even with Arrow Films' financial input, and that of another co-producer, the production was too expensive, even at the low budget. PINOCCHIO and RUMPELSTILTSKIN continued to play, until we had simply run out of territories to open it. The company was not making enough money to sustain us, and Lou finally decided to take a job at Paramount. That, combined with the declining revenues, was the end of Arrow Film Associates. We had a great run, a great relationship. I'll always think of Lou with great affection.

Several years later we made a deal with a company in Philadephia, American Theatre Arts for Youth, to distribute the film. They also did live productions for kids, and marketed through schools, but showed the film in theatres. This was in the mid-1970s. We did okay for a while, but then there were some disagreements about accountings, and our right to audit their books. We sent an auditor, and unfortunately, this company was not very cooperative. We hired a lawyer in Philadelphia to sue ATAY, and finally, they relented and gave us the film back. But we had to wait until their "season" had played out, another 6 months.

Finally, I decided to do the distribution directly. In 1977, I moved to Los Angeles, and opened a new company, Filmpartners, Inc. With PINOCCHIO and another DEFA title, RUMPELSTILTSKIN AND THE GOLDEN SECRET. I convinced a old friend who had theatrical booking experience to help. Straw Weisman started booking the films around the U.S., using sub-distributors in the various exchange territories to set up the theater breaks and take care of TV and newspaper advertising. Pinocchio continued to make money. RUMPELSTILTSKIN did okay business, but never came close to the success of PINOCCHIO. I think the basic difference was that PINOCCHIO is a film about children for children. RUMPELSTILTSKIN is a film about adults for children. Kids just never took to it.

We were doing great, and then a new phenomenon killed the kiddie matinee business dead. In 1983, video became a real competition for the matinees. It was a great baby sitter, you didn't need to drive your kids anywhere, and it was cheap. Theaters stopped booking Saturday/Sunday matinees. The main reason was that the major studios and distributors did not want to give up valuable weekend playing time. So we were squeezed out of business by both economics and technology, literally at the same time.

By 1984, we stopped distributing theatrically, and put our films out on video through a company in Van Nuys, called Unicorn Films. We got a nice advance, but never saw any more money after that. When their distribution rights expired, no video distributor wanted dubbed product. We did sell the TV rights in 1986 to a company called New Century Entertainment, in a package of films that we owned which included Arnold Schwarzenegger's first film, HERCULES IN NEW YORK. I never saw any indication that Pinocchio had actually played on TV. The deal was a flat deal for a certain amount of money, with no royalties. But again, I knew TV buyers hated dubbed films, so it's unlikely that Pinocchio ever played on TV in the U.S. or Canada. It's too bad because it's really a sweet, little film.

KMC: Your second Pinocchio film, PINOCCHIO'S BIRTHDAY PARTY, is an all-original production, definitely the "biggest" of your three PINOCCHIO pictures, and a lot of fun, to boot! How did this "sequel" of sorts come about?

RM: In 1973, the man from whom I bought the DEFA PINOCCHIO, Jerry Rappoport, asked me if I had an idea for another children's film. He had some investors, mostly Canadians, who were interested in putting money into children's films. They saw children's film as a good investment over the long term, which, in fact, they are. For years it was economic cornerstone of the Walt Disney company to re-release the classics every 7 years or so, when a new crop of kids comes into the film-viewing marketplace. So, I suggested a follow-up to the DEFA Pinocchio. I think "follow-up" is a better term than sequel to describe PINOCCHIO'S BIRTHDAY PARTY. It featured four characters from the original film, reprising their personas: Pinocchio, Papa Gepetto, Pippifax (Pinocchio's human friend), and The Blue Fairy.

Dusty Cohl, the Toronto attorney who headed up the investor group, which also included the then-owner of the Fountainbleu Hotel in Miama, loved the idea. So, I wrote the script with Larry Garinger, who had been a partner in the old Omega Productions, and we gave the script to Jerry to pass on to Dusty. Dusty's daughter, Karen Cohl and her best friend, Susie Ungar, read the script and loved it. I'm pretty sure it was Karen's influence with her father that lead to the film being financed. They sat down and wrote a number of songs and asked if I could include them. When I heard that Dusty's daughter was a teenager, I shuddered. But when I heard the songs, they were absolutely delightful. Now they may sound a little too "70s" but at the time, they were quite good. Once I agreed to include the songs, the deal was set, and we were given a budget of $125,000 to make the film. Yes, $125,000, you read it correctly.

The pre-production was done in my office (Ron Merk Productions) in Rutherford, New Jersey, and this included doing the voices for the animated sections of the film, three short films which were purchased from DEFA of East Germany through Jerry Rappoport's contacts. The design and creation of a Pinocchio marionnette, as well as the set designs, were done by my long-time friend and collaborator, Jimmy Racioppi. We tried to get the original Turlis Adventures puppet from DEFA, but they told us they didn't have it any more. (It was created by the famous Czech puppet theater Spebl and Hurvinek, and they wouldn't loan or sell it to us.) So, Jimmy designed and built his own version of Pinocchio. In fact, he built two of them, just in case one was damaged during production.

KMC: PINOCCHIO'S BIRTHDAY PARTY features some beautiful set and production design. Where was it filmed?

RM: Once the pre-production was done, we all flew to Toronto, where the live-action parts of the film were to be shot. The studio, and I'm not sure if it's still there, was called Lakeshore Studios. Jerry Rappoport had hired a local production company to organize the production in Canada. At the time, there weren't all the tax incentives and government rebates that has driven so much U.S. production to Canada these days. I think it was more of a political move on Jerry's part. He was a very savvy businessman. By shooting in Toronto the investors could drop in and see how their money was being spent. Investors like to think of themselves as producers or creative types sometimes. I won't say any more on this subject.

While the sets may look sweet and nice in the film, they didn't start that way. In fact, the rest of this film was one of the greatest nightmares of my life, starting with the first day I arrived at Lakeshore Studios. It was the Friday before we were scheduled to begin shooting. Jimmy Racioppi, the Pinocchio puppet builder and the head puppeteer for the film, as well as his assistant, Greg Smith and I arrived to discover that the big forest set had been put on the wrong sound stage, one that was much too small for the very expansive set. There was no place to walk between the trees and the toad stools, never mind fit in the lighting, the cast and the crew. On top of everything, the set painting was horrible. So, the three of us spent the entire weekend getting the set moved, and re-painting it.

We arrived at the studio on Monday, the first day of the shoot, thoroughly exhausted. It got worse. In fact, each day was worse than the previous one. Costumes had to be fixed, if they arrived on time at all. We were shooting with children, so we only had so many hours each day, and the whole production was totally disorganized. I began to have serious disagreements with Jerry Rappoport and his Canadian production managers. Every time something was wrong, it seems it was blamed on me. All I was trying to do was get the film made, hopefully with some modicum of style and fantasy. After the two-week shoot was over, I flew back to New Jersey, where I quickly came down with double pneumonia and had to be hospitalized for two weeks.

When I got out of the hospital, I had to return to Toronto to see the rough cut of the film, which had been assembled by an editor. I was horrified. It was as if the worst take of every set-up had been used. The film sat there, like a cold fried egg. So, I worked with the editor and tried to save it. The funny thing was that the rushes, which we saw the day after shooting the scenes involved, looked great and everyone was thrilled with my work. So, when they saw the first rough cut, I was totally lambasted, and everything was my fault again. But when I helped fix the bad cut, I was the director again, but not for long.

To make a long story short, the investor group and Jerry Rappoport took over the film. They put in a terrible hard rock music score which just conflicted with everything, and then blamed that on me, too. Finally, I agreed to go back if they would get new music. I had one ace in my pocket. They really wanted Ellen's voice for Pinocchio, and agreed to hire me back if Ellen did the voice work. So, back to Toronto we flew, with our 3 year-old daughter in tow, and recorded Pinocchio's voice track for the whole film in two days. We then flew home again, and that was the end of my involvement with the film. It had gone over budget and of course, it was blamed on me. If you look at prints of the film, you will see that there is no director credit on the film. I can make no other assumption that the "powers that be" decided it would be a great way to punish me. You see, I didn't have a contract. I had done everything on a handshake. Last time I did that. But my name is on the film as the co-writer. You see, they did have a contract with Larry Garinger, which provided shared screen credit with me. Otherwise, my name would have not appeared anywhere in the credits of the film. The film went on to win a Best Children's Film Award at the Atlanta Film Festival in 1973. I never learned who took home the prize. No one had more to do with the creation of the project that I had. That's show business, I guess.

I really liked working with Sean Sullivan who played Gepetto and Danny McIlravey who played Pippifax. They were such good actors, and fun to work with. The crew was always on my side, especially the assistant director, Duncan MacDonald, and the Director of Photography, Maurice Jackson Samuels. And of course, Jimmy Racioppi and Greg Smith, the puppeteers, kept up my spirits by keeping me laughing. So, I was able to do a certain amount of directing, because I had the support of all these people.

KMC: The Pinocchio puppet in PINOCCHIO'S BIRTHDAY PARTY is quite impressive. Who designed it?

RM: As I mentioned earlier, it was Jimmy Racioppi. He and I had gone to high school together, and had worked on numerous projects since our graduation. Arts High School was a special art and music high school in Newark, New Jersey. It was, in fact, the first public high school in the U.S. which allowed you to "major" in art or music. I believe it opened in 1930. Arts High School is still around, and one of my graduating class members is now the Principal. Jimmy continues to be my friend to this day, and currently operates a professional marionnette theatre in Atlantic Highlands, New Jersey, called the Paper Moon Puppet Theatre. He's a wonderful artist. He can draw, sculpt, paint and fashion costumes for the "dolls" as he called them. He also made me laugh a great deal, which during the making of this film, was a true relief from the pain. His "partner in crime" was Greg Smith. He had a wicked sense of humor, and got us into trouble wherever we went. Sadly, he passed away about ten years ago. But I still have a film clip of him on the set of the film, where he's surprised that he's on camera, and vamps for us. It always brings a smile to my face.

KMC: How did you come about getting those great stop-motion cartoon films for PINOCCHIO'S BIRTHDAY PARTY? They are German, aren't they?

RM: The stop-motion films were also produced in East Germany, at the DEFA Studio fur Trickfilme, in Dresden. Since Jerry Rappoport represented DEFA in the U.S., he arranged to buy the rights from DEFA, so that we could include these delightful shorts in the film. I particularly liked the East German stop-motion films. They were wonderfully designed, and well animated, with very much a Brothers Grimm sensibility. They were quite different from the stop-motion films of the rest of Eastern Europe, which were much more stylized and sophisticated. I always wanted to visit the puppet film studio, but alas, never made it to East Germany. After PBP, Jerry Rappoport and I parted company, although we did have a reconciliation in the late 1980s, but we never did work together again. To settle our legal differences on the PBP, I sold out my interest in the film. In fact, I don't even have a print of the film, only an old 3/4" U-matic video that will no longer play.

KMC: PINOCCHIO'S BIRTHDAY PARTY was released by K-Tel, at least in the U.S. How was this distribution arrangement different from Childhood Productions?

RM: K-Tel was in the direct-response sales business on TV. They sold Golden Oldies record collections and other merchandise using TV saturation advertising. They were probably the inventors of what we call "infomercials" today. I had nothing to do with the distribution, since I had sold out my share to Jerry, so I can't comment on what happened.

KMC: How did PINOCCHIO'S BIRTHDAY PARTY do theatrically?

RM: It definitely was not a hit. I've never seen it on TV or video, either. In fact, it seems to have disappeared. Well, I could say that "they gave a party and nobody came," but that would be unsportsmanlike, wouldn't it?

KMC: The third Pinocchio film, PINOCCHIO AND HIS MAGIC SHOW is another impressive original production, filmed in the U.S. (Airwick Studios?). How did this third Pinocchio film come about?

RM: Well, I suppose one expects that "the third time is charm," and at least hope so. So, I dug into my personal pockets, and found two other companies to chip in, and we decided to make not one, but two more Pinocchio films. They were "Pinocchio in Magic Land" (later re-titled PINOCCHIO AND HIS MAGIC SHOW) and re-titled once more by the quickly-out-of business (did I say fly by night?) distributor, First American Films, as PINOCCHIO'S STORYBOOK ADVENTURES. The fourth film, entitled "Pinocchio's Mystery Movie Matinee," was shot, but never edited due to a continuing lack of financial resources. In fact, independent filmmaking is generally defined by a lack of resources, save one, the burning desire and the persistence needed to get a film made against all odds.

The shooting of the live-action segments took place in a tiny 26 ft. x 26 ft. sound stage (actually a TV studio) situated on the premises of Airwick Industries, in Carlstadt, New Jersey. It's hard to imagine that the sets and the crew actually were in the same room, since a few of the angles are pretty extensive, and with many levels of depth. Needless to say, we were squeezed in like sardines. I used to make industrial films for Airwick to support my family and my filmmaking habit. We made a deal with them to use the studio for two weeks to shoot BOTH films. They even chipped in with some 35mm rawstock when we ran short. I later paid them back by doing another industrial film for them without pay.

We built and dressed the sets at night, and shot all day. Most days I got about three hours sleep. So much for the glamor of film-making! It went well at first, but as the days and nights passed, everyone got more and more tired, and I guess, a little cranky. One of the co-producers was supposed to be building the sets while I got some rest. But the third day of shooting I came in and saw what they thought was "ready to shoot." I was, in fact, ready to shoot the set-builders. The set lacked charm, was sparsely dressed and looked really amateur, so I sent the crew home. Jimmy Racioppi, doing puppets again, helped me fix and re-dress the sets. A funny thing happened one day while shooting. The sound man kept hearing a strange noise in his headset. "Sounds like snoring." A quick search of the studio and we located one of the co-producers sound asleep between the set and studio wall, snoring like a locomotive. We gently woke him up and sent him home. I think it was the last time we ever saw him on the set. The production began falling apart very quickly.

We ran out of money the first week, and I asked everyone if they'd trust me for the money. They said yes, and we continued to shoot the second film during the second week. But things got pretty ragged. Everyone was exhausted, the actors were tired, and even with Jimmy and I working on the sets, they started to look even more tired than the actors. It's the reason I never tried to finish the fourth film. It just shows its budget, or should I say lack thereof. There were a number of scenes that were never shot, so it's only about half a movie.

The nightmare continued when we found an interested distributor. They were located in Marina del Rey, California, and run by a guy who had a list of complaints filed against him at the California Department of Corporations a mile long. I didn't know this at the time. They offered us a small advance, and a promissory note for a godzillion dollars, to get the rights. It was the only deal on the table, so we took it. But First American Films turned out to be a big tax-shelter scheme. They never paid us anything, and they went on selling the film all over the world (rights they didn't even have). It took me years to get the rights back, but it turns out they sold it to a number of other companies, and I still suing one of them. So, it's unlikely the film will come out on video until this is all over.

KMC: Again, you use some very nice stop-motion films in PINOCCHIO AND HIS MAGIC SHOW. Were these films produced especially for your films?

RM: They were delightful films, again from the DEFA Studio fur Trickfilme, Dresden (East Germany). I bought them through the same Jerry Rappoport from whom I had purchased the shorts that were seen in PINOCCHIO'S BIRTHDAY PARTY. We had a short reconciliation, and he was happy to take my money. I haven't heard from him in years, but despite our disagreements, I was always grateful that I had met him, since it had a profound influence on my career to be introduced to the film-makers of Eastern Europe.

KMC: Was PINOCCHIO AND HIS MAGIC SHOW released theatrically, and if so, by what company? how did it fare?

RM: First American Films opened the film in one theatre, in New Jersey, in order to "quality" the film as a theatrical release for its phony/baloney tax shelter deal. As far as I know, it was never seen again, until it showed up in 16mm and on video through various companies, all of which we put on notice that First American Films' rights had been terminated for breach of contract. I have spent years "hunting down" all these "licensees" of First American, and have just filed yet another lawsuit for copyright infringement by a small video distributor. We never did find the 35mm negative which First American Films made, although we checked with every film lab in the U.S. to see if they were storing it. Luckily, I retained the original negative, which is now safely deposited with The Academy of Motion Picture Arts and Sciences, along with all the negatives to my films that I control.

KMC: Did the Pinocchio trilogy have a second life on TV?

RM: Not as far as I can determine. In today's sophisticated market, I think it's unlikely that TV stations would play the films. It's not that I don't think kids will enjoy the films. They would. It's that the buyers are too jaded to see the sweet, innocent quality of these films, and how that would appeal to a young audience.

KMC: Do you recall the approximate budgets for the three films?

RM: "Pinocchio rights," dubbing and prints cost about $100,000. PINOCCHIO'S BIRTHDAY PARTY was about $175,000, about $50,000 over the original budget as best I can determine. I never got to see the "real" set of books. PINOCCHIO AND HIS MAGIC SHOW and the unfinished "Pinocchio's Mystery Movie Matinee" cost about $150,000.

KMC: The Pinocchio trilogy has gained quite a cult following amongst film buffs. Any chance of seeing them released again on home video? What about a Pinocchio Trilogy "Special Edition" DVD?

RM: I'm so happy to hear that people like my work on these films. They will always have a special place in my heart, despite the heartaches I had making them. They're like your first children. Special. Unfortunately, due to the complicated legal problems that surround all three titles, I don't expect to see them on video (unless someone is pirating them!), nor do I expect a 3-film special edition DVD. It's something to dream about, but I'm much more of a realist today than when I made these films.

"Pinocchio's Mystery Movie Matinee" would probably been the best one. It had the best concept of all. Pinocchio has been given some money by Papa Gepetto to pay for some tools that are being delivered by the mailman. But the Cat and the Fox cheat him out of the money by selling Pinocchio a decrepid, old movie theatre, complete with resident organ-playing phantom, a never-was silent movie star named Virgil Love. I wanted an old but famous actor to play this part. Vincent Price was my first choice, but with no money, it was not possible to get him. In the story, Pinocchio is faced with the task of cleaning up the theatre and putting on a show. We were planning to use silent movie clips, mostly comedy, and thereby introduce modern children to the wonders of silent movies. When the money ran out, and with the rushes looking too low-budget, I abandoned any hope of finishing the film. I tried to resurrect the film when I moved to Los Angeles in 1977. A friend of mine in Hollywood was good buddies with Vincent Price. Price loved to keep working, and you could get him for a reasonable weekly rate toward the end of his career. It was just a matter of me coming up with the money to re-shoot some of the old scenes, and then do Price's bits. Life has a strange way of leading you in directions you never planned, and I never did get to work with Price. Today, the film remains unfinished, but it's stored safely in a film vault for possible future visitation.